Originally Posted by C&L 1911 (Post 1717968)

Car sales plummeted because no one was afraid of cars getting permanently banned overnight with a stoke of a pen of the guy in charge. Also, ammo can still be found, albeit at a premium. However, many of these new gun buyers think they can just buy one box of the hollow points (even if they have to pay $20 for it) and it will last them a lifetime; after all, if a bad guy breaks into their house, they will only need one round to bust his kneecap, so box of 50 rounds goes a long way. Not many people who buy guns actually practice with them regularly, and many never do; just having a gun nearby makes them feel safe, even if they have no clue how to use it.

Originally Posted by optimestic1 (Post 1717975)

I hate to say it, but that almost sounds like me! I don't do much shooting anymore. I might fire off about 5 or 10 rounds a year just to stay familiar with whatever gun I have out for defense. I have a moderate supply of ammo, and am afraid to use much of it. It seems that once it's gone, it's gone for good!

Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1717997)

People who are buying guns now (and paying high prices) are probably thinking guns will be banned first and they can always buy ammo later...

I have been telling my shooter friends for the past 3 years to STOP buying guns and start buying PLENTY of ammunition for any firearms they currently own or plan to own in the future.

Originally Posted by meatman (Post 1718010)

there is more ammo out there now then I have seen in months

Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1718020)

Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1718022)

Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy:

I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink:

+Plus, there's nothing better than looking a a line-up of a dozen or so pistols on a table and rifles on the wall !!!

:bear_thumb:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...gv7/rifles.jpg

Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1718022)

Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy:

I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink:

+Plus, there's nothing better than looking a a line-up of a dozen or so pistols on a table and rifles on the wall !!!

:bear_thumb:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...gv7/rifles.jpg

Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1718022)

Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy:

I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink:

Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1718176)

Finnish Valmet M76...

Originally Posted by renegade_01 (Post 1718288)

any of you ever seen the video of the guy sneaking into Afghanistan to show the arms markets down there?

There were basically shops with machining and tooling to create any component you would need to service 1911 pistols and Ak47s...

There was one shot where lil kids were sorting thru spent steel AK casings...and prepping them for reloads, smelting lead and so forth.


I'm not worried about ammo. We can MAKE ammo from raw materials is need be.

Start building your library folks!

Originally Posted by optimestic1 (Post 1717947)

As for me, I'd like to get a Subcompact XD9, but I find it hard to justify buying it at a time when I can't even find ammo to shoot through it.

Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1718300)

Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1718321)

I just LOVE the long video version you referenced... true to life!

Can't get enough of reality! :applause_

Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1718329)

Here's another one in Baghdad:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=201adb5c31

Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1718337)

Thanks for the Bagdad clip!

Now, let's see this happening in the good ole USA!

Let all citizens be able to defend themselves! :)

Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 1718178)

Calm. Stay calm!

Obama can no more "ban" my guns "with a stroke of his pen" then he can pass any other law. There is a multi-step process and the President's signature is the last step. I haven't even seen a first step yet. And things that stand no chance of passing like HR45 aren't a first step!

The media likes to take shortcuts. They like to point out that the Democrats have 60 votes in the Senate now. But they totally ignore the fact that those 60 Democrats don't vote in lock step. They are from different parts of the country. At least at this time, the Democrats still don't have the votes to pass another AWB. Of course that could change if we don't stay involved but they just don't have the votes right now. Or the political will to take the inevitable political backlash.

Originally Posted by meatman (Post 1718039)

I just got a boner and there are no women around :565:

Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1718345)

LOL.... there they have black markets.

Here we have gunshows!

I hope we can manage at least as good as they do when the gunshows stop...



.

Originally Posted by FireMattMillen (Post 1718370)

My dad got a new Walther PPS .40 about six weeks ago - he has only been able to take it to the range ONCE because the only ammo he can find is expensive self-defense ammo for 80 cents per round.

Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 1721738)

This is why I won't buy one of those plastic guns--it might not survive the wallop I "tactically" apply to someone's jaw or cranium! :banana:


Where I'm still experiencing the pinch in in reloading equipment. Certain dies are non-existent. Primers are available only through auction sites for two to eight times they were last year. Finding powder is pure luck. The only thing I can find easily is brass, which figures, because I have some to sell and can't unload...

Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1718301)

.
. Referring back to your original post, you say it is "hard to justify" the purchase of a 9mm handgun..... Are you trying to imply that you cannot find a single box of 9mm luger ammunition for sale?
I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.
I defy you to find a single US city in which the most common pistol caliber in the world cannot be found.
There are 50,000 mom n pop hardware stores, gunshops, general stores, even gas stations and bait shops where a box of your favorite pistol ammo can be had.
Perhaps you are confused, and think that Walmart is out of 9mm, so then rest of the world must be out too?
Winchester is running 3 shifts, assembling small arms ammunition for domestic civilian market 24 hours per day, 7 days a week.
Get your cash out of your pocket, go shopping, you will FIND what you need.

Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1718003)

US citizens are buying over a billion rounds of small arms ammunition PER MONTH.... and you say you "Dont understand it" ???
what is to understand?
You want a snap shot of a culture? watch what they spend their money on.
Follow the money.

Originally Posted by Peter Robbins (Post 1718761)

Even at todays prices, I still think that funs and ammun are decent long term investments.

You cant tell me that if you bought a dozen high capacity, "assault" style weapons, that in 15 years (maybe sooner) they wont at least keep up with inflation. Hell, they may be priceless.

Im not ashamed to say that I have a 6 month old, new in the box, never fired stag 556. Paid 999.99 at the time. Last week went in to the same fun store and saw the EXACT model listed for 1149.99. I see 9$ a box 9mm, thats a decent price, but I bet it wont last. The bubble may burst, but politics (taxes, bans, inflation, etc) will keep the prices going up.

There is nothing wrong with having a lifetimes supply of something that will never go bad. That and Im happy to have something usefull to trade my USD for right now. I think its Ruprick who says that metal = money. For me, funs and lead are a good way to save/ store my metal.

OP, just buy the ammo first. Then after you have spent lots of time and energy tracking down a decent amount, reward yourself with the XD.

Originally Posted by markt (Post 1726005)

I have about 4500 rounds of .22LR Velocitor, 3000 rounds of .22LR MiniMax, and 100 factory rounds of .454 Casull magnum. However I also have 1000 virgin brass cases of .454 Casull magnum, 200 used cases for target shooting, 12,500 lead bullets, 12,500 primers, and 18 Lbs of powder for the above in reserve (I reload). I wonder if I should get more brass. If I loaded it all up I'd have 1300 rounds of .454 Casull magnum on hand. Since I can get at least a dozen reloads from each case then I should have enough to last for 12,500 rounds. But I'm limited to 1300 at a time. Should I get more brass (30 cents each) to keep more loaded ammo on hand? Time is short and I really should be beefing up my other preps.

Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1726136)

Even function testing and practice aside, that is a lot of ammo for a uncommon caliber(unless you live in animal attack country like Alaska/Canada along with gun toting peers) if you don't have a 12 gauge/AK-74,(7.62x39 ammo shortage) and ammo to match.

I would also put a higher priority on .22LR since it's the most practical , cheapest, most SHTF spendable, non-reloadable, and you already have a gun for it.

12 gauge would be my other priority. Think of the buckshot shells as $20 bills when you're buying it for less than that, and think of the bird and target shot as $10 bills when you're buying less than that. Get both defensive loads(00-#4) and food loads(#4-8)

If you don't have a scary black rifle, you've missed the boat at the foresight rate.

Get the Ak-74 from classicarms even if you have to pay an arm an a leg for it. If you have the money get the saiga 12+mags in the same order.

Now isn't the time to be stockpiling beyond what you aren't willing to go without(the investment merits are dubious since the volatility could take out the floor, and the fear is already priced in. Nothing is going up anymore unless the bans start.)

(You aren't willing to go without: a black rifle, a hunting rifle, a combat shotgun, a CCW piece, and enough ammo to function test, practice, sight in, and where practical: invest)

IMHO people with money to burn should invest in tools and get a small machine shop available to them. It will make them more adaptable when SHTF and is a good way to save money.(<-take's way longer than normal 6 month cycle to pay for itself unless doing work for others or if you have lots of ideas) On that note I wrote the following shopping list:

A milling machine and a lathe available for the post-SHTF law breaking.(this isn't a huge hurry because you can accumulate slowly including while the SHTF) A similarly political leaning close friend of a machinist will suffice. Otherwise:

Harbor Freight sells a "3 in 1 combination machine" which is a lathe and a mill. If you don't have anything better, and can't afford anything better, get it. Otherwise: learn how to identify a distorted lathe bed from out of level, identify a worn spindle bearing, and find yourself a used machine with nice undamaged "ways" that was used on soft materials.

The bare essentials of a machine shop:a shop press, full set of HSS drill bits, a lathe, endmills, boring bars, a drill press, a kurt vise/precision vise, parallels, a clamping kit, a bench grinder, a wheel dresser, a cutter sharpening grinder with cupped wheels that can do carbide, a bandsaw/recipricating hacksaw, metal stock(used weights from second hand sporting goods for iron), Lathe HSS blanks, a rotary table, a set of files, dial calipers, micrometer set, tape measure, a 4 jaw chuck, an indexing head for the rotary table, dial indicator, dial test indicator, magnetic bases for both, a 3rd axis for the lathe/(or a milling machine) keyway cutters, slotting tools, a live center, telescoping snap gauges, ball snap gauges, adjustable parallels, height gauge, surface place(small one is fine)

I think that'll get you started. Get a couple years worth of consumables(end mills, boring bars, HSS blanks, and drill bits.) Invest in carbide inserts if you want. Those things are gonna get valuable as all the manufacturing comes home from China. Great opportunity from debased USD=cheap labor+good infrastructure->manufacturing hub of world.

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1726147)

My company is closing and the owner told me to get a truck and take whatever I want. There are two Bridgeports sitting there. They are old, but were used primarilly for milling aluminum. One of the two has the digital display. There are endmills galore, plus associated goodies, free for the taking. I just don't have a place for them. I took the lathe in the dead of night by way of selling it to a tooling guy I ran across for 400 bucks. I split it with the owner. Sad times over there.

Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1726114)

The Russian pistol ammo may not be the culprit. The pistol may need a little more break-in time or you may be limp-wristing a bit...try a different mag or two or try better quality brass-cased ammo.

Quality brass-cased 380 ammo is ridiculously priced these days due to poor availability. Seems US manufacturers load on the same machines they use for 9mm, which is in much higher demand. Until that demand is met, and ammo makers once again start to produce it, good .380 will continue to be scarce.

BTW, I don't recommend it for much more than a minimal concealment pistol anyway, nor do I recommend any steel-cased ammo for anything other than practice. Good luck. SC

Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1726158)

Get a storage unit and rat hole that shit away! That is useful, tangible goods...and the price is free toi you right now.....

I've been packing away the tools, machines, welders, supplies.....all useful through life and esp in SHTF....and been building the skills for the past 20 years......whatever it takes.....just don't be another useless mouth to feed.

Don't be short sighted....load up for the future....even if you never use it and just trade it....

Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1726178)

All shooting is good shooting - provided you strive to learn and not just spray lead down range. In about 6 months I went from good/very good to competing for state championships......all shooting a single shot air pistol in my home.....this training all translated over to slow, times and rapid fire in 22LR, Center-fire nad 45 ACP NRA Conventional Pistol "Bullseye". When you get good at slow fire ....all the rest follows.....it is all based off of slow precision fire.....

Shoot every day for 1 hour in you yards/basement with an air pistol...read and study the art and science of pistol shooting....you get very good in a few months and perhaps world class in a few years.

I know this first hand.....so forget the train with whay you will use idea....it all carreis over at some point.....you train with a simple 22LR DAO pocket pistol ....your DAO 380 will shoot just the same.....

All training is good....more training is better. The key is to just shoot anything.

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1726173)

Hard to respond to your logic, but try to understand that I am unemployed and with machinery going for pennies on the dollar, and not having the skills to use them, I don't think it would be wise to go to the trouble to rent a truck with a lift gate, and incurr the expense of leasing a storage unit at this time. I have enough preps and other normal shit that I will have to contend with moving in the next year. There are like 3 really nice cut off wheels there too. They have the magnetic tables. I may snag those.

My family has a close friend that had his own tool and die making business for over 30 years. He closed up 2 months ago. All his equipment was auctioned off for next to nothing. He was lucky enough to get a job in a tool shop in another state.

I already helped myself to a couple of desktop computers and a couple of brand new in the box HP 1020 laserjet printers, with a couple of extra new toner cartridges, a laptop with docking station and a 22 inch widescreen monitor. A Magnesium handtruck, a 12,000 btu air conditioner (the type that is on wheels with the hose that goes out the window), a Fiberglass and aluminum 24 foot extension ladder, 2 brand new 48 inch Rigid pipe wrenches (they are like 200 bucks a piece, and I don't know what I will do with those)
20 five gallon cans of blacktop sealer.

I was making silicone rubber pads for their Tampo Pad Transfer Printing operation for over 12 years. My own process that I designed and formulated. I am tempted to take all my equipment and materials and start making them from my home. I would have to market them, and the competition is stiff. That is a hard area to break into. Then the cost to me for EDM'd molds for casting the pads would be a major investment. Without the companies dollars to support the operation, I would probably be wasting valuable time and resources. Pad Printing is a dying trade it seems these days in the USA because of China.